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Writer's pictureJohn Chiarello
Aug 25, 202055 min read

2nd Cor. 5

2nd Corinthians 5

2Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

2Corinthians 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

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Some of my studies-

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NOTE- Every so often some of my sites think I am Spam- or a Bot- I am not. My name is John Chiarello and I post original content [all videos and text are by me]. I do share my past posts from my other sites- but it is not spam. I post 8 videos a night to many of my sites, and text posts 3 times a week. I realize that is a lot for some sites, yet this is the system I felt the Lord led me into. I NEVER take money- or ask for money- ever. Everything is free- to some sites this makes a difference- so I wanted to say that here.  Thank You- John.

[TODAY’S POST BEGINS HERE]

2Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

2nd Corinthians 5 videos-

ON VIDEO

.Scripture and history [Balance]

.2nd Coming and Resurrection

.End times stuff in context

.Darby and Scofield

.The influence they had on American Christianity

.The 2nd Coming was seen as 1 event for 1800 years

.In the 19th century things changed

.Why?

.Origen and universalism

.What was he famous for? [Or infamous]

.Organize your life around the Kingdom of God

.Don’t ‘miss’ the plain meaning of scripture

1Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

2Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. [All the verses I quote on the videos are at the bottom of each post]

PAST POSTS [These are links and parts of my past teachings that relate in some way to today’s post- verses and other videos at the bottom of this post]

2nd Corinthians

Chapter 1

Chapter 2

Chapter 3

Chapter 4

I quoted a verse from Gal. 3- Here’s my complete study

I quoted from John- same here-

A quote from Cor. 15

Same with Romans 6-

I talked on the misuse of the parable of the sower- I wrote a chapter in my 1st book about it-

 2ND CORITNHIANS 5- Paul speaks of the Christian hope- resurrection! This chapter can be confusing if not taken in context. You could think that Paul is saying when we die we have a house/room in heaven ‘waiting for us’ and this seems true enough. But he is really saying something more along the lines of ‘in heaven [Gods realm] we have a promise of a new body. The Spirit in us is the down payment, but full redemption will be complete when we are raised from the dead’ the hope is a new body, not our souls living some type of disembodied existence in a heavenly mansion. Now, Paul teaches us that this new covenant [last chapter] is one of reconciliation, not condemnation. That because of the work of the Cross, all men have been reconciled to God! It is therefore our job to tell them. In the field of Christian thought there have been thinkers [Origen, Carlton Pearson, etc.] who have dabbled with the doctrine of universalism. They believe that ultimately all people will be saved. I do not believe in this doctrine myself [though I wished it were true- I mean wouldn’t you want everyone forgiven and with God?] but those who embrace it find there reasoning in these types of verses. The New Testament teaches a theme of redemption that says ‘all men have been reconciled to God; Jesus has died for all men. God wills for all to be saved’ and it is because of this theme that some have held to universalism. The point I do want to make to all my orthodox friends is the New Testament message is one of total acceptance based on Christ’s death for us. Sometimes Christians ‘make it hard’ for people to ‘get saved’. The bible doesn’t make it hard, it says it’s a free gift that anyone can have [I know my Calvinist friends are upset right now, but heck I cant please all the people all of the time]. We want the world to know that ‘God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself’. These major themes need to be engrained into the mind of the church and the world. I am not talking ‘easy believism’ in the sense that God requires no repentance, but I am talking the reality of the free gift based upon what Jesus has done. There are so many people struggling with so many things, many have prayed and pleaded with God for change. Many have given up; they see God as a demanding judge whom they could never please. The message of the Cross is ‘you can’t please God, make up for your own sins. God placed those sins on Jesus, that’s why you can be accepted’. He was made sin for us, who knew no sin. That we might be made the righteousness of God in him. Once you see this truth, God will set you free. You will change, you will become ‘righteous’ but it’s a result of the Cross, not your own efforts.

Chapter 2-3 of my book-

CHAPTER 2 ‘TWISTING THE PARABLE OF THE SOWER’

While a new Christian, enjoying that early honeymoon period with the Lord, I’ll never forget the joy I experienced while learning the bible for the first time. The clarity, pureness and unity of scripture were a sure foundation for a long road ahead. While working as a house painter and listening to Christian radio all day long, it was an early introduction to the various ‘streams’ of teaching that were being produced in the church. One day my job foreman, who often heard me listening to Christian radio, thought I would enjoy listening to a new tape series that he had just been given. So I popped the cassettes into my radio and listened with the excitement of a new believer in Christ. The cassettes were a new teaching on the parable of the sower. MATTHEW 13:1-9, 18-23 ‘ THE SAME DAY WENT JESUS OUT OF THE HOUSE, AND SAT BY THE SEASIDE. AND GREAT MULTITUDES WERE GATHERED TOGETHER UNTO HIM, SO THAT HE WENT INTO A SHIP, AND SAT; AND THE WHOLE MULTITUDE STOOD ON THE SHORE. AND HE SPAKE MANY THINGS UNTO THEM IN PARABLES, SAYING, BEHOLD, A SOWER WENT FORTH TO SOW; AND WHEN HE SOWED, SOME SEEDS FELL BY THE WAY SIDE, AND THE FOWLS CAME AND DEVOURED THEM UP: SOME FELL UPON STONY PLACES, WHERE THEY HAD NOT MUCH EARTH: AND FORTHWITH THEY SPRUNG UP, BECAUSE THEY HAD NO DEEPNESS OF EARTH: AND WHEN THE SUN WAS UP THEY WERE SCORCHED; AND BECAUSE THEY HAD NO ROOT THEY WITHERED AWAY. AND SOME FELL AMONG THORNS; AND THE THORNS SPRUNG UP, AND CHOKED THEM; BUT OTHER FELL INTO GOOD GROUND, AND BROUGHT FORTH FRUIT, SOME AN HUNDREDFOLD, SOME SIXTYFOLD, SOME THIRTYFOLD. WHO HATH EARS TO HEAR LET HIM HEAR………HEAR YE THEREFORE THE PARABLE OF THE SOWER. WHEN ANYONE HEARETH THE WORD OF THE KINGDOM, AND UNDERSTANDETH IT NOT, THEN COMETH THE WICKED ONE, AND CATCHETH AWAY THAT WHICH WAS SOWN IN HIS HEART. THIS IS HE WHICH RECIEVED SEED BY THE WAYSIDE. BUT HE THAT RECIEVED THE SEED INTO STONY PLACES, THE SAME IS HE THAT HEARETH THE WORD, AND ANON WITH JOY RECIEVETH IT; YET HATH HE NOT ROOT IN HIMSELF, BUT DURETH FOR A WHILE: FOR WHEN TRIBULATION OR PERSECUTION ARISETH BECAUSE OF THE WORD, BY AND BY HE IS OFFENDED. HE ALSO THAT RECIEVED SEED AMONG THE THORNS IS HE THAT HEARETH THE WORD; AND THE CARE OF THIS WORLD, AND THE DECEITFULLNESS OF RICHES, CHOKE THE WORD AND HE BECOMETH UNFRUITFULL. BUT HE THAT RECIEVED SEED INTO GOOD GROUND IS HE THAT HEARETH THE WORD, AND UNDERSTANDETH IT; WHICH ALSO BEARETH FRUIT, AND BRINGETH FORTH, SOME AN HUNDREDFOLD SOME SIXTY SND SOME THIRTY’. As the teacher taught through the parable he explained how Jesus was teaching us how to plant [sow] the word [scriptures] in our hearts [through confession, meditation, etc.] in order to receive a thirty, sixty, or hundredfold return. He then applied the entire teaching to reaping an hundredfold return of MONEY! He taught how that at each stage of the parable the devil tries to steal the word so we don’t receive our harvest. He then got to the part where Jesus says ‘THE DECIETFULLNESS OF RICHES CHOKE THE WORD’, I couldn’t understand how Jesus could be teaching us about reaping a financial harvest, and then say this! It almost seemed like a contradiction. Well the teacher then began to sound uncomfortable as he explained how the deceitfulness of riches was actually that old traditional teaching that says you cant be rich [or something to that effect]! Even as a new believer in Christ I just couldn’t accept this explanation, it was almost as if the teacher was trying to make Jesus words say the opposite of what he meant.

The basic plain meaning of the parable is self-explanatory. There are always obstacles and enemies of the gospel. Ultimately those who overcome these obstacles will bear good Christian fruit in varying degrees [30,60 or 100 fold]. The various hindrances to the word of God include the ‘cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches’. If you want to produce fruit for God you cant get caught up in the materialistic pursuits of the world [2 TIMOTHY 2:4].

Many times in connection with this parable is the doctrine of sowing for a harvest taught. Jesus often uses planting [sowing] and harvesting [reaping] illustrations in his teachings. The main focus is usually dealing with the spreading of the kingdom of God and the message of Christ to the nations. Sometimes the seed refers to believers themselves, and other times the actual message preached [MATT. 13: 20,38]. Sowing and reaping also refer to the works we do, as well as the money we give into the kingdom [1COR. 9:11, GAL. 6:8]. While there are many ways you can apply sowing for a harvest, I find it disturbing that some in the church have focused the entire teaching towards financial and material gain. This type of preoccupation with money is in direct opposition to the warning that Jesus gave in this parable, he told us that the deceitfulness of riches could derail us from being fruitful, and the distorted teaching that applies this entire parable to money is in itself a fulfillment of the warning that ‘the deceitfulness of riches’ can deceive you, because it denies the very warning of Christ and makes him say something that he never said!

 CHAPTER 3 ‘WHAT IS THE ABRAHAMIC BLESSING’

 I must admit that out of all the various portions of scripture used to teach a false prosperity gospel, this is one of the most deceptive. In order for us to fully grasp the concept of the abrahamic blessing, we must do a little history.

In GALATIANS 3, the apostle Paul makes one of the greatest N.T. arguments for justification by faith versus law. I personally believe this doctrine to be one of the foundational doctrines in the N.T.

The heresy that Paul is fighting against in Galatians is the heresy of legalism that was taught by the judiazers. The judiazers were the Jewish/Christian sect that taught that gentile believers needed to be circumcised and brought under the law in order to be saved. The main argument that Paul uses to refute this doctrine is in Galatians 3. In this chapter we find Paul going back to the O.T. books in order to show that God established, by covenant, the basis of justifying man by faith without the deeds of the law. The main argument Paul uses is ‘the abrahamic blessing’. Paul traces Gods promise to Abraham, made before the law was given, where God says ‘in thee shall all nations be blessed’ [GEN. 12:3, GAL. 3:8]. This meaning that God would bless [save] all nations through the promised child of Abraham [which would eventually be Jesus]. Paul’s point is to show that God already promised to bless all people through Abraham’s offspring [the abrahamic blessing], and not through the law. The abrahamic blessing referring to justifying the world by faith and giving us ‘the promise of the Spirit by faith’ [GALATIANS 3:8-14], this argument is also used in Romans 4.

Now here comes the tricky part, some teach that God covenants to make us rich trough the abrahamic blessing [or covenant]. They use this chapter to teach that Christ died so we can receive the abrahamic blessing. They then define the abrahamic blessing as the ‘things’ that Abraham had. But once again the abrahamic blessing as defined in Galatians 3 is referring to God justifying us by faith as opposed to the law. Paul was in no way teaching the Galatians that God was going to make them rich! He was battling for their very souls! The plain text of this passage shows us that Paul was dealing with the issue of justification, and not finances. And it would make absolutely no sense for Paul to begin to address money issues in the middle of this chapter.

Each time I came across this type of distorted interpretation, I honestly couldn’t understand how so many different teachers could so consistently apply the same passage in the wrong way. It almost reminds me of the O.T. passage that speaks of a conspiracy of the prophets [EZEK. 22:25]. A sort of network of false/distorted interpretations of the scripture that exist among certain groups of believers, and these same false opinions are then propagated again and again until after you hear them long enough they seem to become accepted truth in the church at large. We need to re-examine some of these doctrines and receive correction and make the proper adjustments in our thinking and acting [repentance!], so we don’t continue to spread these false opinions in the church.

· ROMANS 6- Lets talk about baptism. To start off I believe that the baptism spoken about in this chapter is primarily referring to ‘the baptism of the Spirit’, that is the work of the Holy Spirit placing a believer in the Body of Christ. The Catholic and Orthodox [and Reformed!] brothers believe that Paul is speaking about water baptism. The MAJORITY VIEW of Christians today believe this chapter is referring to water baptism. Why? First, the text itself does not indicate either way. You could take this baptism and see it either way! You are not a heretic if you believe in it referring to Spirit or water. You are not a heretic if you believe in Paedo baptism [infant baptism]. ‘What are you saying? Now you lost me.’ Infant baptism developed as a Christian rite over the course of church history. The church struggled with how to ‘dedicate’ new babies to Christ. Though the scriptures give no examples of infant baptism, some felt that the reason was because the scriptures primarily show us the conversion of the first century believers. There really aren’t a whole lot of stories of ‘generations’ of believers passing on the faith to other generations. So some felt that the idea of dedicating babies to the Lord through infant baptism was all right. The examples they used were the circumcision of babies in the Old Testament. Infants were circumcised [a rite that placed you under the terms of the Old Covenant] though they weren’t old enough to really understand what they were doing! This example was carried over into the Christian church and applied to infant baptism. Now, I do not believe in infant baptism. But I can certainly understand this line of reasoning. As Christian theology developed thru the early centuries, particularly thru the patristic period, you had very intellectual scholars grapple with many different themes and ideas. Some that we just studied in chapter 5. Some theologians came to see infant baptism as dealing with original sin. They applied the concept of infant baptism as a rite that washes away original sin. The church did not teach that this meant you did not have to later believe and follow Christ. They simply developed a way of seeing baptism as ‘sanctifying’ the new members of Christian households. This basic belief made it all the way to the Reformation. The Reformers themselves still practiced infant baptism. It was the Anabaptists [re-baptizers] who saw the truth of adult baptism and suffered for it, at the hands of the reformers! Ulrich Zwingli, the Swiss reformer, would have them drowned for their belief. Some Protestants stuck with the infant rite, while others [the Restorationists] would reject it. Today most Evangelicals do not practice infant baptism, the majority of Christians world wide do. Now, the reason I did a little history is because Evangelicals [of which I am one] have a tendency to simply look at other believers who practice this rite as ‘deceived’. Many are unaware of the history I just showed you. The reasons the historic church developed this doctrine are not heretical! They used scripture and tradition to pass it down to future generations. I do not believe or practice infant baptism, many good believers do.

· ROMANS 6: 1-11 ‘shall we continue to sin, so grace may abound? God forbid! How shall we, who are dead to sin, live any longer therein?’ Now begins the ‘actual part’ the result, if you will, of being ‘made righteous by faith’. One of the main accusations against Paul, by the Jewish believers, was that he taught ‘sin a lot, because you are no longer under the law’. Paul spends time defending himself against this accusation thru out the New Testament. Here Paul teaches that the believer has been joined unto Christ [baptized, immersed into him] and this ‘joining’ identifies him with Christ’s death. So how can ‘we, who are dead to sin, live any longer in sin’? Paul’s argument for righteous living comes from the fact that we have died with Christ unto sin. ‘We have died with him, and we have also been raised with him to new life’. In Ephesians chapter 2, Paul says we who were dead in sins have been made alive in Christ. Now, we live a new life, free from sin [practically speaking- not absolute sinless-ness!] because we are identified with Jesus in his new life, we are ‘alive with and in him’. ‘Since we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection’! Jesus died once, and now he lives forever unto God ‘likewise count yourselves dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God thru Jesus Christ our Lord’. Paul’s basis for the transformed life is Grace and being ‘in him’. Paul does not appeal to the law to try and effect holiness in the believer, he appeals to Christ ‘in him you have died to legalistic practices, trying to earn salvation and acceptance; and now because of this new position [placement] you too have died to the old man [lifestyle] and are alive unto God’. Paul obviously did not teach ‘sin hardily’ to the contrary he taught ‘live unto God’.

(834)Romans 6:12-23    ‘Let not sin therefore rule in your mortal body’ if we have died with Jesus, we are ‘dead with him to sin’. If we are risen with Jesus ‘we are alive unto God thru him’ for this reason don’t sin! Paul makes sure his readers understand him, he in no way was teaching a sinful gospel. He encourages the believers to renew their minds to this truth. ‘For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under the law, but under grace’ Paul clearly saw the dangers of legalism [living under strict ‘do this, don’t do this’ guidelines] he saw that the law actually quickens the fleshly nature and brings to the surface mans sin. Now, because we are under grace, does this mean we get to keep on sinning? ‘God forbid!’ Paul launches into the explanation of sin and bondage. Remember, sin was in the world before the law. Men were dying ever since Adam sinned. So for Paul, this means even though we are not under the restraints of law, yet the reality of sin, bondage and punishment still exist. Paul says ‘if you yield to sin and allow it to rule you, you will become its slave’. There will be a penalty and price to pay ‘the wages of sin is death’. But because you are identified with Jesus ‘sin shall not have dominion over you… you have been made free from sin’. Paul teaches the victorious Christian life. He does not deny the struggle [next chapter!] but he shows the reality of redemption. He obviously never taught the concept of ‘sin more, so grace can abound’. He understood the dangers of preaching ‘we are not under the law’ but he also understood the reality of ‘being under grace’ he figured it was worth the risk of being misunderstood if he could truly imbed the gospel into the believing community.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Romans 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Romans 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

Romans 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Romans 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

Romans 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[Parts]

My past stuff on Origen-

 NOTE; in the current discussion with ‘Emergent Church’ stuff, some are bringing up the possibility of hell being symbolic in nature. Does ‘fire’ mean ‘fire’ and stuff like that. I believe it does, but want you to understand that true thinkers and movers have differences of opinion on this. Origen, one of the early intellectual church fathers, taught universalism. That all people will ultimately be saved. Of more recent fame, Carlton Pearson left his charismatic roots and embraced ‘no hell’. To be honest, he has gone a lot further than simply being ‘no hell’. He denies the authority of scripture, thinks John wrote Revelation as an expression of being delusional. I feel Pearson, in his journey towards universalism, went way too far. Clark Pinnock, a modern theologian has taught ‘annihilationism’ that all the wicked will be burned up and non existent. There are a few verses where you can get this from! The point is some very good people [and bad] have differences of opinion on this. My point is this statement from Jesus ‘it would have been better if Judas were never born’ sure seems to indicate that every one will not wind up in heaven! It seems as a harsh thing to say if Jesus knew his buddy would one day be in heaven. Judas could rightfully ask ‘why did you say it would have been better if I were never born, after all, all people who were ever born wind up in heaven.’

 GALATIANS 5- Paul’s main theme is if we possess the Spirit as believers [being indwelt by God’s Spirit] then let us also walk in/by the Spirit, as opposed to trying to please God by the law and being circumcised. Paul will use the somewhat controversial term ‘ye are fallen from grace’ which simply means that these Gentile believers started by faith and went back to the old Jewish system, much like the themes in the book of Hebrews. Paul says when you go back to the law you have left grace. Christ has ‘become of no effect to you, you who are justified by the law’. This is a good example of how words and certain phrases can develop over the centuries of church history and develop a different meaning over time. In essence the bible does teach that a person can ‘fall from grace’ but this does not describe what the modern reader might think. The first church father who attempted to formulate the Christian doctrine of the Trinity was a man named Tertullian, he lived in the second century and was what theologians refer to as one of the Latin fathers [as opposed to the Greek ones- Origen, etc.] Tertullian was famous for the sayings ‘what does Jerusalem have to do with Athens’ and ‘I believe because it is absurd’ he was resisting the influence of Greek philosophy on the church, he felt that Greek wisdom was influencing the church too much. He was trained in law before becoming a theologian [like Luther and Calvin of 16th century Reformation fame] and he used the words ‘God is one substance/essence and also three persons’ later church councils would agree with this language. But the word ‘person’ at Tertullian’s time was the Latin word ‘personi’ which was taken from the theater and meant a person/actor who would put on different masks during the play; the word had a little different meaning then what we think of today as ‘person’. Later centuries would come to condemn certain Christian groups who seem to have formulated language on the Trinity that expresses the same thing as what the original developer of the doctrine meant to say, but because words and their meanings change over time we get ourselves into disputes that might be getting us off track. Paul also tells the Galatians that if they become circumcised that they are obligating themselves to keep all the law. Of course the medical procedure that many have done in our day is not what he is speaking about, but in Paul’s day getting circumcised was the religious rite that placed you into the religion of Judaism, and this is what Paul is refuting among the Galatians, he tells them not to go down that road. This chapter has lots of good ‘memory verses’, the famous lists of the works of the flesh versus the fruit of the Spirit are found here, and it seems pretty clear to me that Paul identified circumcision with the moral law of the 10 commandments, that is he saw being circumcised as an act that obligated you to ‘keep all the law’ some theologians are discussing whether or not Paul meant the law of Moses when speaking about going ‘back under the law’ some think Paul was speaking only of the ceremonial law and the system of animal sacrifices when he was telling the gentiles that they should not go under the law, I believe if you read Paul in context both in this letter and the book of Romans, that he is speaking of the moral law too, not just the ceremonial law. All in all Paul exhorts these believers to fight for their right to be free from the past restraints of religion and bondage, he tells them to not desire to go back under a system of bondage, that Christ has made us free from that legalistic way of life and he has liberated us by giving us the Holy Spirit- if we ‘walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for the flesh lusts against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh, and these two are contrary one to the other, so that you cannot do the things that you would’ amen to that.

ROMANS 7:1-4 Paul uses the analogy of a married woman ‘don’t you know that the law has dominion over a person as long as he is alive’? If a married woman leaves her husband and marries another man she is guilty of breaking the law of adultery. Now, if her husband dies, she is free to marry another man. The act that freed her from sin and guilt was death! Every thing else in the scenario stayed the same. She still married another, she still consummated the new marriage. But because her first husband died, she has no guilt. I always loved this analogy. For years I wondered why these themes in scripture are for the most part not ‘imbedded’ in the collective psyche of the people of God. We have spent so much time ‘proof texting’ the verses on success and wealth, that we have overlooked the really good stuff! Now Paul teaches that we have been made free from the law by the ‘death of our husband’ [Jesus] so we can ‘re-marry’. Who do we marry? Christ! He has not only died to free us from the law, he also rose from the dead to become our ‘husband’ [we are called the bride of Christ]. Paul connects the death and resurrection of Jesus in this analogy. Both are needed for the true gospel to be preached [1st Corinthians 15]. Notice how in this passage Paul emphasizes ‘the death of Christ’s body’. The New Testament doesn’t always make this distinction, but here it does. In the early centuries of Christianity you had various debates over the nature and ‘substance’ of God and Christ. The church hammered out various decrees and creeds that would become the Orthodoxy of the day. Many of these are what you would call the ‘Ecumenical councils’. These are the early councils [many centuries!] that both the eastern [Orthodox church] and western [Catholic] churches would all accept. Some feel that the early church fathers and Latin theologians [Tertullian, Augustine and others] had too much prior influence from philosophy and the ‘forensic’ thinking of their time. They had a tendency to describe things in highly technical ways. Ways that were prominent in the legal and philosophical thinking of the West. Some of the eastern thinkers [Origen] had more of a Greek ‘flavor’ to their theologizing [Alexandria, named after Alexander the great, was a city of philosophy many years prior to Christ. This city was at one time the center of thinking in the East. That’s why Paul would face the thinkers at Athens, they had a history in the east of Greek philosophy]. Well any way the result was highly technical debates over the nature of God and Christ. The historic church would finally decree that Christ had 2 natures, Human and Divine. And that at the Cross the ‘humanity of Jesus’ died, but his ‘Deity’ did not. I think Paul agreed by saying ‘we are free from the law by the death of Christ’s Body’ here Paul distinguishes between the physical death of Jesus and his Deity. Note- actually, Augustine would be in the same school as Origen. Alexandrian.

My past stuff on Darby- Scofield-

I was watching a preacher the other day teaching on end time things. He is very dogmatic in his view. The Rapture and all. I thought it funny, because as he got to the part where he was teaching on the ‘4 horseman of Revelation’ he flatly says ‘the rider on the white horse is the anti-christ’. I know this view fairly well. I was taught it as a new Christian. The last few times I have read Revelation I lean more towards this rider being Christ who is conquering against the forces of evil. Some say ‘well, we know this isn’t Christ, because after him come the other 3 horses which represent death and destruction and bad stuff’. The point I will make is in Revelation your are seeing ‘the wrath of God’ it is Gods judgment on the unbelieving world. It would seem fitting for Christ to appear at the beginning of these judgments, after all ‘all judgment has been committed to the Son’. I really have no idea why I am even getting into this, I haven’t read Revelation in a while. I just thought it funny, how someone can be so sure of his end time scenario, where he might actually be calling a reference to Christ ‘the anti-christ’.[a bit prophetic, don’t you think? Revelation is about the story of the Son of God triumphing over the forces of evil, but those who hold to the strong antichrist view, it just seems fitting for them to mistake ‘Christ’ for ‘antichrist’, if this is all you see when you read the book, then that’s what you will SEE!] NOTE; Let me overview a little bit more. The above interpretation of the rider on the white horse being ‘antichrist’ grows out of an entire ‘scheme’ of end time events that was developed in the 19th and 20th centuries. These were good men [John Nelson Darby] who came to embrace certain views of end time things [Rapture]. To these brothers they see the Church [believers] ‘taken away’ in the first few chapters of Revelation. They say ‘Jesus is speaking to the churches by his Spirit, then you have no more ‘churches’ being spoken to’. God tells John to ‘come up here’ [heaven] and they see this as the ‘secret Rapture’ where the church is taken away. The reason they see it like this is in Revelation you see Gods wrath on those that ‘dwell on the earth’ and therefore believers can’t be here! Even though you will find actual references of the Devil fighting the Saints. Making war against those who ‘keep the Word of God’ and all sorts of references of the enemy fighting believers thru out the book. The ‘Rapture’ brothers will say ‘these groups are those who got saved after the church left’ well, if they are saved, they are ‘in the church’ technically speaking. So it is possible [very likely too me!] that ‘Christians’ are on the planet when these hard times take place. They also will say ‘these references to those who keep the Word of God’ are to certain Jews who are converted [again all new testament language to ‘the Israel of God’ and things like this are speaking of those who have come to know God by faith, even Jews] so the fact that thru out the rest of the book you find language like this, tells me the ‘church’ didn’t get secretly taken away. And then most importantly, you find CLEAR verses actually speaking of Jesus coming, in PLAIN LANGUAGE, and these verses are looked at as ‘the final stage of the second coming’ or other verses referencing Christ [like the rider on the white horse] being called ‘anit christ’. To me all these brothers ‘suffer from’ a mistake that they warn others about making. That is ‘interpret the plain meaning of scripture first, before going to lengths to develop doctrines from that which isn’t plainly in the text’. If God has ANY PEOPLE ON THE EARTH WHO ARE CALLED ‘SAINTS’ THOSE WHO KEEP THE WORD OF GOD and any other references like this, then plainly these references show that Christians are on the planet during this time. The Rapture guys will so much as accept this, but then they come up with all sorts of different categories for these ‘converts’ who are ‘saved’ during the tribulation. My argument would simply be ‘so if you admit there are actual converts in this tribulation time, then it very much is possible, even thru your own interpretation, to have believers on the earth during this time’. So how then does God ‘spare them from his wrath’ while they are going thru all these difficulties? He does it by divine power. You see the believers thru out history going thru many times of ‘great tribulation’. You also see the lost world going thru many periods of ‘Gods wrath’. To the casual observer, these might look like the same thing. But to those going thru it, they know the difference. The simple fact that God has the ability to ‘keep those’ in Christ from his wrath is the answer. You don’t have to come up with all types of belief systems that say ‘Jesus secretly appeared between chapters 3 and 4 and the reason we know this is ….’ Why do stuff like this? There are very real and plain references to Jesus coming again in the book of Revelation. Don’t go and find some doctrine that comes from ‘silence’. That is ‘since the Spirit is no longer speaking directly to the churches after chapter 3, therefore Jesus came and took them all away’. Jesus is no longer speaking ‘to the churches’ because the main issue after chapter 3 is the outpoured wrath of God on an unbelieving world. We know he didn’t come and take all the believers away, because there are many verses dealing with his people being here, as well as very plain and open verses that say when he comes. So lets stick with the plain meaning first, and then you can try and ‘figure out who the 144,000 are’. Another note; I am really ‘delving’ into it for those who were taught his. At the end of the book of Revelation you do see ‘Jesus coming back with his saints’ and in the book of Thessalonians it says ‘don’t worry about those who have died, when Christ comes back, he will bring them also’. There was a very real 1st century fear that the loved ones who have died were gone. Paul deals with this in Thessalonians as well as Corinthians chapter 15. I know to us it seems silly for believers to have held to this fear, but the fact is it was something the Apostle Paul dealt with. So you see the New Testament speaking of ‘Christ coming back with the Saints’ as a hope of the resurrection. That is Jesus brings back [at the 2nd coming] the ‘spirits’ if you will, of all who have been with him for thousands of years. These will ‘reunite’ with their bodies at the Resurrection. Those who are living at this point will be instantly glorified [1st Thessalonians 4] so to read a verse that says ‘Jesus comes back with his saints’ shouldn’t cause you to think ‘well, how did all the saints get there? He must have secretly come back and taken them, there you have it’ well they got there BY DIEING! Jesus brings them back with him as was taught thru out the whole New Testament. Don’t go and develop some doctrine that believers didn’t ‘know about’ for 1800 years to explain this stuff. It’s simple if you just read and believe scripture as it is written. Also there is a real event at the second coming that ‘raptures’ believers into the air to meet with Christ. This event does happen. It happens at the second coming. So we too who are alive will be ‘caught up together with the Lord’. The return of Jesus back to earth takes place with all of the saints at the ‘touch down’ of Jesus feet on the planet. Truly he ‘comes back with all his saints’. Don’t go and develop a secret ‘second coming’ [rapture] that took every one away at another time. The ‘rapture’ takes place at the ‘second coming’ it is the event of us going up to meet him in the air at the moment of resurrection! NOTE; this also brings us back to the verses in Isaiah ‘not speaking your own words’. Many of the brothers who teach these things are well meaning gospel preachers. Good churches who lead people to Christ. Most of them are taught this stuff at bible school, or from well meaning ‘fathers of the faith’ that they looked up to. During these formative years they are told ‘this is what the Rapture is’ along with all sorts of other learning. They don’t have time to spend years ‘un learning’ this stuff. They mean well. Often times they only question it as they leave the learning environment of college and become long term students of the bible and history. A lot of times when we put ‘preachers out into the work’ they come with these pre conceived ideas that they learned along the way. The problem is if people are teaching things that ‘are the words of men’ [to put it nicely!] then they are ‘speaking their own words’. While every teacher is susceptible to this, we do it at an alarming rate in today’s media world. It’s so easy to catch a preacher teaching this on TV, or to read a Tim Lahaye book on the end times. I see some of this as a result of the Protestant churches ‘coming out from all historical truth, the fathers of the ancient church’ and going with the ‘bible only’. Now going with the ‘bible only’ is a good thing. I have used the bible to show you in this whole entry why the Rapture as taught today holds no ground. But the strong independent protestants truncate themselves from the heritage of all the saints [All the great church fathers, down thru the present time] and leave themselves open to having too much influence from a small part of the Christian church. In my experience I found it ‘amusing’ how the Fundamental Baptists were so much like the Assembly of God in all of these doctrines, and yet the fundamental Baptists viewed them as heretics over the gift of tongues. They couldn’t see that they had so much in common, even the wrong stuff on the Rapture! So it would do us all good to sit back, read the writings of church history, study the bible, pray, DO EVANGELISM [the great commission was to go and make disciples, not even get into all this stuff!] and over time allow the Spirit of God to lead you. You will find that you as a believer can disagree on these end time issues and still work together for the cause Of Christ in your community.

RAPTURE- 2ND COMING- 2 EVENTS?

 I was thinking about starting a new study and covering 1st, 2nd Thessalonians.

Instead I decided to just copy a few passages about the 2nd coming of Christ and talk about that.

I’m not covering everything you can on the subject .

My purpose in this short study is for you to see the simple- plain language when the New Testament covers this subject.

Many good men- scholars- do read these passages as speaking about separate events.

And this study gets long [convoluted in my mind] and digresses into different details [like the last trumpet sounding- or other different details of the same event].

And some have developed an intricate ‘system’ of how these same passages- that in my mind speak of the same event- are actually talking  about 2 different events-

One called ‘The Second Coming’ and another- called ‘The Rapture’.

And to justify this belief- they will teach ‘there is only one Second Coming- but it’s in 2 parts’.

Yikes!

To me- that means you are saying there are 2!

Others say ‘just like in the Old Testament they did not realize the prophets were speaking about 2 comings of Jesus [his birth- and the Second coming- true].

So in the New Testament- there are also ‘2’ comings [meaning a Rapture- then later- a Second Coming].

Now- in the simple field of Logic- these good men do not realize that this in itself is a contradciton.

Why?

Because they themselves are admitting that in the Old Testament there are ‘2’ events spoken about [the first- and the SECOND] meaning there are not THREE.

So- if you actually have a separate Rapture event spoken about in the New Testament- well- that makes 3 events [Jesus birth- the Rapture- then the Second Coming].

Understand- When you read the few chapters posted below-

Paul is penning these letters to these churches- who were actually doubting the resurrection of the Body [Corinthians]-

Or fearing that their dead loved ones would be left out of the hope of Jesus’ return [Thessalonians].

So he is comforting them by saying when Jesus returns- their dead relatives will be raised- and they too would ‘meet the Lord in the air’.

Now- I do believe this event will happen someday- it will happen when Christ returns.

The dead will be raised- those that ‘have done good’ [believers] to the ‘resurrection of life’-

Those that ‘have done evil’ –will face judgment.

Those who are alive at this event- the second coming- or if you want to say the term ‘Rapture’ you can.

We too will 'be caught up’ to meet the Lord in the air.

But- as I read these passages- we don’t go away for 7 years [which you see in the very popular End Time movies of our day].

But we THEN are changed- have our resurrection bodies- and yes-

There will be a new heaven and earth- all tears wiped away-

And we will be with Christ and our loved ones- in actual resurrected bodies- for eternity.

To read these passages- and to ‘see’ 2 different events- taking place over 7 years-

It’s not ‘heresy’ per se- but it would be very confusing for the early church- who were getting these letters-

Separately- to make any sense out of Paul using the same language- and talking about the same themes [we will be raised from the dead- don’t fear that your loved ones will miss out- Jesus will return- we will get new bodies- etc.]

And then to think he is actually talking about 2 different events-

I mean these young churches were questioning the resurrection from the dead- wondering what happened to their dead relatives.

See?

Paul is correcting them about some fundamental Christian beliefs- and for him to be ‘introducing’ a 2 staged ‘2nd coming’ – well- that’s just doesn’t make sense to me.

As a student of Theology- I am familiar with both sides of this issue [Dispensationalism versus Historic view].

In this post I’m giving you the view that the early church held- and the view that most Christians hold today.

In the past I covered how the Rapture view came about [1800’s- John Darby- few others].

And I could go over all that again.

But- for this short study- I just want you- yourself- to read these chapters.

Does it sound like the Apostle Paul is speaking about 2 different events to you?

Below I’m pasting some of the main sections [not all] that talk about the 2nd Coming-

I want you to see the context.

Over the years as I simply read these passages- it was obvious to me that some who teach these verses- are actually missing the main reason why Paul brings up the 2nd coming- and the resurrection of the dead.

In the Thessalonians portion- some say Paul is speaking about 2 different events [the Rapture- a secret coming- 1 Thess. chapter 4. Then the ‘day of the Lord’ and the 2nd coming- a whole other event].

If you simply read it- he is saying ‘the Second coming- the Day of the Lord- it is still yet to come- and your loved ones will not be forgotten’ [1st Thessalonians].

Then- in 2nd Thessalonians- it seems as there might have been a fake letter- written to them- claiming to be from Paul.

H says ‘don’t be disturbed- either by word- OR A SO CALLED LETTER FROM US’.

Don’t be disturbed that the Day of the Lord [or the Second coming] ‘is at hand’- or already happened.

Then in chapter 2 he goes on to talk about the Wicked one being revealed 1st [antichrist- which we have much to say about in the future].

Paul is basically covering the same ground in 1st and 2nd Thessalonians.

He taught them that Jesus will come back- and our dead loved ones will not miss out on the future kingdom- they too will be raised from the dead- and we will all be together with the Lord.

Then in 2nd Thessalonians he is saying ‘wait- don’t get fooled- again. Jesus did not come back yet- some stuff must happen first’.

Those who teach the Rapture have Paul talking about 2 different events here.

One- a secret Rapture- then- the 2nd coming.

Remember- this church was obviously having some serious doctrinal problems.

And it would make no sense for them to have received these 2 letters [not in a book form- like the bible we have today].

And to ‘figure out’ that Paul is talking about 2 different events- using the same basic language that he uses in his letters to the other churches- about the 2nd coming of Christ.

And for them to have discerned that this was a whole new ‘secret’ thing God revealed to Paul-

Well- it simply makes no sense to me.

As you read the passages below- see the language Jesus himself uses ‘after the days of the tribulation- THEN shall the sign of the coming of the son of man be’-

Jesus says the angels will be sent forth- gather together God’s elect-

All the language about the 2nd coming seems to be speaking about one event in the New Testament [trumpets- etc.].

Those who each the Rapture- as a secret 2nd coming- they ‘see’ the trumpet language [which is used about all the events- even those who say they are 2 different ones].

As ‘another trumpet’ and so on.

There are pro and con verses that both sides use in this debate.

I think the main point is- the language used about the 2nd coming- or ‘the Rapture’ is obviously speaking about the same thing.

So- we start from there- then- if you develop an End Time view of things- no matter how you see all the other future events to come-

You don’t ‘add’ another- secret- 2nd coming in there-

To me- that’s going too far.

1Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

1Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

1Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

1Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

1Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

1Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

1Thessalonians 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

1Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

1Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

1Thessalonians 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

2Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

2Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

2Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

2Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

2Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

2Thessalonians 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

1Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

1Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

1Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

1Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

1Corinthians 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Corinthians 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Acts 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

2Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

2Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

2Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

2Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2Peter 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

2Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

2Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

evelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. [NOTE- in these passages I’m quoting ones that say ‘Jesus comes back with the saints- from heaven’- This verse can refer to Angels- Christians- or both. Now- I don’t want to be demeaning here- but a big part of this discussion revolves around ‘see- Jesus comes back with the saints- therefore- there must be a Rapture- or how else did they get there’! Look- read the context of the verses I’m pasting- in Paul’s letters he’s dealing with the fear that Dead Christians might be forgotten about- so- for him to say ‘Jesus comes back WITH THEM’ Well- that fits the whole theme- Not of another Rapture- apart from the 2nd Coming- but when he returns- he brings them back- in short- to answer the question ‘How did those saints get there’- They DIED.]

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Revelation 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Revelation 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Matthew 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not [Jesus is actually warning against those who say he is in the ‘secret chambers’ or a ‘secret coming’. Paul- in 2nd Thess. Does the same thing ‘don’t let anyone trick you into thinking he already came back’- sort of a secret event].

Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark [some teach that the Ark here is a symbol of the Rapture- that like Noah was in the Ark- so the Christians are taken ‘out of the earth’ for 7 years. The Ark is a type of Christ- not an earthly escape. So- you escape Gods coming wrath- by being in Christ. Also- the Ark did not take Noah and his family out of the earth- contrary- they stayed in the earth- and miraculously escaped the judgment].

Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Matthew 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Matthew 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Matthew 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

NOTE- I added these verses in because those who teach the Rapture see these verses talking about different events-

For instance the passages they see as the Rapture- and not the Second Coming- Talk about Jesus coming- and to the unbeliever that ‘day will be like a thief coming’-

Jesus will ‘gather together the elect’-

And we will be ‘taken to him’.

In these verses- the exact same language is used- as in the ‘other’ portions of the bible- that speak about the Second Coming.

So- for those who see these as 2 different events- they have ways of making them fit-

But- the plain language- like Jesus saying ‘AFTER the tribulation of those days- THEN shall the sign of the coming of the Son of Man be seen’-

In normal language- Jesus is saying the 2nd coming happens after the tribulation of those days.

So- the Rapture guys say ‘No- Jesus is not talking about the Rapture- but the Second coming’.

Yet- the same language is used ‘he will gather the elect- some will go- some will be ‘left behind’.

So- my conclusion is Jesus will indeed come back- there will be a resurrection from the dead.

We will indeed be ‘caught up’ to meet the Lord in the air [but we don’t go into hiding for 7 years- while nobody knows where we are].

There will be a resurrection of the unjust-

There will be a judgment of both the just and unjust.

Those that have ‘done good’ will be ‘raised to life’-

Those that have done evil will be raised to face judgment.

All this will indeed happen- but there is only one more coming of Christ.

The passage in 1st Thess. Chapter 4 is indeed the 2nd coming of Christ.

The same event Jesus himself is talking about in the gospels.

The same event we read about in 1st Corinthians 15.

And the same event we read about in the book of Revelation.

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

Some of my past stuff on Scofield-

EVOLUTION AND RACISM- Jesus said if you call someone a fool ‘without a cause’ that you would be in danger of ‘hell fire’. One of the most famous ‘Evolution versus Christian’ cases in the 20th century was known as ‘The Scopes Trial’ [monkey trial]. I remember as a boy watching the made for T.V. movie ‘Inherit the Wind’. The movie portrayed the Christians as ‘ignoramuses’ while showing the defense side as ‘enlightened’. The key figures were Clarence Darrow [1857-1938] and William Jennings Bryan [1860-1925]. John Scopes was the teacher accused of teaching evolution from the book ‘Civic Biology’  by George Hunter. Tennessee had recently passed a law forbidding the teaching of evolution in their schools [Butler act]. Scopes was found guilty and fined 100 dollars, but the intent of trying to show the Christian fundamentalist as ‘backwoods idiots’ was achieved. Darrow managed to get Bryan to admit that the creation account of Genesis might be speaking of ‘ages’ when it says ‘days’ [the very popular gap theory was accepted by many fundamentalists at the time. C. I. Scofield's bible popularized this belief in the notes]. After the trial the fact that the A.C.L.U. lost the case was insignificant, they won in the media. Till this day many people see this event as a victory for freedom and human rights. What is not commonly known is that the book Scopes taught from was one of the most racist books of the age. It freely taught Eugenics [the stronger more ‘nobler’ races winning out over the less valuable inferior races!] it even had a scale showing the 5 races of humans from the most valuable and intelligent, to the least valuable and ignorant. The book had whites at the top and blacks at the bottom. Bryan was a defender of civil rights for all humans, he stood on the side of blacks and minorities being equal. The so called ‘advanced’ bunch [the evolutionists] were on the side of the K.K.K., they espoused the doctrine of white supremacy as taught in the book Scopes used. Bryan felt the danger of this so called ‘scientific theory’ was that it would lead to disaster and the degrading of human dignity. It is an historical fact that Hitler read and believed in Eugenics and Evolution, he felt his atrocities against the Jews were simply mans way of ‘wiping out the inferior races’. His demonic attack would occur a few years after Bryan’s warnings. Now, for those who view the famous ‘Monkey Trial’ as a great victory for humanity, I have one response ‘the men who wrote and espoused such racist beliefs were quite obviously FOOLS!’

VERSES [These are the verses I either quoted or taught from on today’s post- Links to all my sites below]

2Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2Corinthians 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

2Corinthians 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

2Corinthians 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

2Corinthians 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

2Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

2Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

2Corinthians 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

2Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

2Corinthians 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

2Corinthians 5:12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.

2Corinthians 5:13 For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.

2Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

2Corinthians 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

2Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

2Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

2Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

2Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

2Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

2Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 14:29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

John 14:31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

Isaiah 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

Isaiah 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Isaiah 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Isaiah 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

Isaiah 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Isaiah 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Isaiah 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matt. 24

Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

James 1:21

Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Hebrews 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Hebrews 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

John 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

John 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1st. Peter 4:17

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 1cor. 6

Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. John 14:11

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Gal. 3:13

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.  Luke 12:48

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